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	<title>Comments for BradSpangler.com</title>
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	<link>http://www.bradspangler.com</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t make me get all Korzybski on your ass by freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/1004#comment-27325</link>
		<dc:creator>freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/?p=1004#comment-27325</guid>
		<description>Nice breakdown, Brad!

@Jeremy:
&lt;i&gt;My rejection of the term capitalism is simple: I don’t like the emphasis on capital, period.&lt;/i&gt;

While my refusal to even use the word anymore (aside from when discussions like this arise) ultimately comes from Roderick Long's "zaxlebax" analysis, my long-time dislike of the term is partly due to the emphasis on capital as well.  

The emphasis on profits also turns me off, although I have no inherent objection to profits as such.  A freed market would open the door to alternatives to the profit-maximizing ethos that has thrived under current conditions.

I agree with your comments about BK Marcus.  His clinging to the word "capitalism" aside, I'm generally quite fond of him.  One additional hang-up though:  Hagbard Celine never provided a &lt;a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20070829164439/http://www.blackcrayon.com/library/dictionary/celine/" rel="nofollow"&gt;definition for "political capitalism"&lt;/a&gt;.  Robert Anton Wilson would not be pleased about this.

*note:  I provided a wayback machine link to that Black Crayon page because the site is currently down for some reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice breakdown, Brad!</p>
<p>@Jeremy:<br />
<i>My rejection of the term capitalism is simple: I don’t like the emphasis on capital, period.</i></p>
<p>While my refusal to even use the word anymore (aside from when discussions like this arise) ultimately comes from Roderick Long&#8217;s &#8220;zaxlebax&#8221; analysis, my long-time dislike of the term is partly due to the emphasis on capital as well.  </p>
<p>The emphasis on profits also turns me off, although I have no inherent objection to profits as such.  A freed market would open the door to alternatives to the profit-maximizing ethos that has thrived under current conditions.</p>
<p>I agree with your comments about BK Marcus.  His clinging to the word &#8220;capitalism&#8221; aside, I&#8217;m generally quite fond of him.  One additional hang-up though:  Hagbard Celine never provided a <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20070829164439/http://www.blackcrayon.com/library/dictionary/celine/" rel="nofollow">definition for &#8220;political capitalism&#8221;</a>.  Robert Anton Wilson would not be pleased about this.</p>
<p>*note:  I provided a wayback machine link to that Black Crayon page because the site is currently down for some reason.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t make me get all Korzybski on your ass by jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/1004#comment-27324</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/?p=1004#comment-27324</guid>
		<description>Good job parsing that out; I made similar (but much less technical) arguments in the comments of &lt;a href="http://bkmarcus.com/blog/2008/04/capitalism-is-a-reclaimed-word" rel="nofollow"&gt;this B.K. Marcus post&lt;/a&gt;. It's childish, especially since I think it's the height of the ueber-intellectual libertarian snobbish stereotype to shove complex, unqualified economic ideas down people's throats and balk when they get indigestion.  No wonder anarcho-capitalists get vomit all over themselves.

I still think all parties involved need to re-read Long's &lt;a href="http://www.mises.net/story/2099" rel="nofollow"&gt;remarks&lt;/a&gt; on the matter.  If you're clear about what you mean by any given word, there's no problem.  But people like Marcus (and anti-capitalist leftists, for that matter) aren't clear about what they mean - they want to use shorthand in lieu of conversation, packaging complex positions up with nice, tidy, loaded labels.  Anybody who disagrees with the meta-decisions they've taken behind the scenes can go fuck themselves.

My rejection of the term capitalism is simple: I don't like the emphasis on capital, period.  I think there's better defenses of individual liberty than browbeating people with economic arguments.  I think free markets - and lots of other arrangements like co-ops and mutual aid societies - come from free people, instead of springing fully formed from Mises's head.  I don't think Marcus is intellectually dishonest; I think he's behaving in a self-righteous, smug manner that downplays ideas in favor of trite categories.

What a shame - he's an excellent writer; why demand monopoly over a word?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good job parsing that out; I made similar (but much less technical) arguments in the comments of <a href="http://bkmarcus.com/blog/2008/04/capitalism-is-a-reclaimed-word" rel="nofollow">this B.K. Marcus post</a>. It&#8217;s childish, especially since I think it&#8217;s the height of the ueber-intellectual libertarian snobbish stereotype to shove complex, unqualified economic ideas down people&#8217;s throats and balk when they get indigestion.  No wonder anarcho-capitalists get vomit all over themselves.</p>
<p>I still think all parties involved need to re-read Long&#8217;s <a href="http://www.mises.net/story/2099" rel="nofollow">remarks</a> on the matter.  If you&#8217;re clear about what you mean by any given word, there&#8217;s no problem.  But people like Marcus (and anti-capitalist leftists, for that matter) aren&#8217;t clear about what they mean - they want to use shorthand in lieu of conversation, packaging complex positions up with nice, tidy, loaded labels.  Anybody who disagrees with the meta-decisions they&#8217;ve taken behind the scenes can go fuck themselves.</p>
<p>My rejection of the term capitalism is simple: I don&#8217;t like the emphasis on capital, period.  I think there&#8217;s better defenses of individual liberty than browbeating people with economic arguments.  I think free markets - and lots of other arrangements like co-ops and mutual aid societies - come from free people, instead of springing fully formed from Mises&#8217;s head.  I don&#8217;t think Marcus is intellectually dishonest; I think he&#8217;s behaving in a self-righteous, smug manner that downplays ideas in favor of trite categories.</p>
<p>What a shame - he&#8217;s an excellent writer; why demand monopoly over a word?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Molyneux on Anarchy by Soviet Onion</title>
		<link>http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/1002#comment-27323</link>
		<dc:creator>Soviet Onion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/?p=1002#comment-27323</guid>
		<description>Well yes, I'm aware that there were some quasi-anarchistic developments taking place in the High-to-Late Middle Ages, particularly the proliferation of urban communes composed of ex-serfs, the rebirth of commerce and the polycentric commercial codes and arbitration services of the Lex Mercatoria, and of course the guild system.  But these were islands of exception in an otherwise hostile sea.  A general reference to "Feudal Europe", both as an historical period and a geographic region, seems to imply that he's talking about more widespread institutions than those.  

Specifically, I think he means to suggest that the feudal system was an example of quasi-private protection, provided by voluntarily-funded landlord armies that protected the employer's property and dependents.

I don't find this example either believable or embarrassing, because feudalism depended so much on original and ongoing coercion that it's pretty easy to separate the trace amounts of anarchy from the statist context.

The titles of the landlords in question all originate in conquest that superimposed their manufactured title over the original title holders.  Not only did this give them exclusive control of all presently occupied land , but it was reinforced by laws prohibiting the new homesteading of unoccupied land within the lord's fiefdom (which serfs were not free to leave anyway).  Thus it was truly monopoly landlordism, not merely large scale land ownership.


(It's also interesting how property owners in the U.S. are in a similar situation, in which the State preempts access to "public" land and levies property taxes on everyone living within it's borders.  So we're all really just tenants to the Great Big Monopoly Landlord in the Sky).


Legally, the serfs' relationship to their lord was anything but free and contractual.  For one thing, they were legally bound to the land; trying to leave incurred death or mutilation.  Once violently trapped in that local monopoly, were saddled with all sorts of tithes and taxes for "services" they didn't want or need.  That's not surprising since, with the exception of the Lex Mercatoria and the English Common Law),law was created and enforced by lords.


(I should note, however, that medieval law were still primarily civil laws.  They had no concept of crimes against the state, and treated most things as disputes between between people, legal privilege not withstanding.)


Given that European feudalism was based on conquest and the coercive imposition of a lord's extortionist rules, even beyond the inhabited farmland that neither he nor his ancestors ever touched or purchased voluntarily, it's easy to see how his claims to ownership amount to nothing more than statism, and the rent nothing more than taxation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well yes, I&#8217;m aware that there were some quasi-anarchistic developments taking place in the High-to-Late Middle Ages, particularly the proliferation of urban communes composed of ex-serfs, the rebirth of commerce and the polycentric commercial codes and arbitration services of the Lex Mercatoria, and of course the guild system.  But these were islands of exception in an otherwise hostile sea.  A general reference to &#8220;Feudal Europe&#8221;, both as an historical period and a geographic region, seems to imply that he&#8217;s talking about more widespread institutions than those.  </p>
<p>Specifically, I think he means to suggest that the feudal system was an example of quasi-private protection, provided by voluntarily-funded landlord armies that protected the employer&#8217;s property and dependents.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t find this example either believable or embarrassing, because feudalism depended so much on original and ongoing coercion that it&#8217;s pretty easy to separate the trace amounts of anarchy from the statist context.</p>
<p>The titles of the landlords in question all originate in conquest that superimposed their manufactured title over the original title holders.  Not only did this give them exclusive control of all presently occupied land , but it was reinforced by laws prohibiting the new homesteading of unoccupied land within the lord&#8217;s fiefdom (which serfs were not free to leave anyway).  Thus it was truly monopoly landlordism, not merely large scale land ownership.</p>
<p>(It&#8217;s also interesting how property owners in the U.S. are in a similar situation, in which the State preempts access to &#8220;public&#8221; land and levies property taxes on everyone living within it&#8217;s borders.  So we&#8217;re all really just tenants to the Great Big Monopoly Landlord in the Sky).</p>
<p>Legally, the serfs&#8217; relationship to their lord was anything but free and contractual.  For one thing, they were legally bound to the land; trying to leave incurred death or mutilation.  Once violently trapped in that local monopoly, were saddled with all sorts of tithes and taxes for &#8220;services&#8221; they didn&#8217;t want or need.  That&#8217;s not surprising since, with the exception of the Lex Mercatoria and the English Common Law),law was created and enforced by lords.</p>
<p>(I should note, however, that medieval law were still primarily civil laws.  They had no concept of crimes against the state, and treated most things as disputes between between people, legal privilege not withstanding.)</p>
<p>Given that European feudalism was based on conquest and the coercive imposition of a lord&#8217;s extortionist rules, even beyond the inhabited farmland that neither he nor his ancestors ever touched or purchased voluntarily, it&#8217;s easy to see how his claims to ownership amount to nothing more than statism, and the rent nothing more than taxation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Molyneux on Anarchy by tjvanwyk</title>
		<link>http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/1002#comment-27322</link>
		<dc:creator>tjvanwyk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 01:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/?p=1002#comment-27322</guid>
		<description>I just don't know about this one. Molyneux's usually great, but I don't see what he's driving at. Maybe it's too subtle for me, or maybe I'm too hung up on terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#8217;t know about this one. Molyneux&#8217;s usually great, but I don&#8217;t see what he&#8217;s driving at. Maybe it&#8217;s too subtle for me, or maybe I&#8217;m too hung up on terms.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Molyneux on Anarchy by Marja</title>
		<link>http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/1002#comment-27321</link>
		<dc:creator>Marja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/?p=1002#comment-27321</guid>
		<description>Kropotkin's descriptions of the guild system.

I don't think it helps to show voluntary, noncoercive, enforcement of contracts [i]to rob or imprison or kill other people[/i].</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kropotkin&#8217;s descriptions of the guild system.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it helps to show voluntary, noncoercive, enforcement of contracts [i]to rob or imprison or kill other people[/i].</p>
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		<title>Comment on Molyneux on Anarchy by Soviet Onion</title>
		<link>http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/1002#comment-27320</link>
		<dc:creator>Soviet Onion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/?p=1002#comment-27320</guid>
		<description>Feudal Europe?  Really?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feudal Europe?  Really?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Angela Keaton&#8217;s blog by Niccolo</title>
		<link>http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/998#comment-27319</link>
		<dc:creator>Niccolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/?p=998#comment-27319</guid>
		<description>I hope more follow suit and abandon it outright.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope more follow suit and abandon it outright.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Angela Keaton&#8217;s blog by Mike Gogulski</title>
		<link>http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/998#comment-27318</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/?p=998#comment-27318</guid>
		<description>Yay, implosion! Can we bring back the monarchy now, so at least the sword will be plainly visible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay, implosion! Can we bring back the monarchy now, so at least the sword will be plainly visible?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Attention left libertarians: they&#8217;re giving out free money and it has your name on it by Sheldon Richman</title>
		<link>http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/994#comment-27317</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheldon Richman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/?p=994#comment-27317</guid>
		<description>Thanks for plugging the contest. I'm eager to see what kind of entries we get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for plugging the contest. I&#8217;m eager to see what kind of entries we get.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A nuanced approach to the revolutionary redistribution of property by Niccolo</title>
		<link>http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/986#comment-27316</link>
		<dc:creator>Niccolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 10:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/?p=986#comment-27316</guid>
		<description>Well, I went ahead and stole your idea Brad.


However, I'm open to many different edits to the as of now finished copy.

You can reach it here.

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/IKJPSFrr7qA1KRxLP3to0bkX5sHTH442RWzN4aavGJYxdrCOUm67c8YdRPAtXTfOjz_kzXCsd8e8A3m9fiHP9N5Q1aF4VtxvExmtdA/RevolutionaryRedistribution.pdf

I think there's a lot to be done with it, but it's a start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I went ahead and stole your idea Brad.</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;m open to many different edits to the as of now finished copy.</p>
<p>You can reach it here.</p>
<p><a href="http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/IKJPSFrr7qA1KRxLP3to0bkX5sHTH442RWzN4aavGJYxdrCOUm67c8YdRPAtXTfOjz_kzXCsd8e8A3m9fiHP9N5Q1aF4VtxvExmtdA/RevolutionaryRedistribution.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/IKJPSFrr7qA1KRxLP3to0bkX5sHTH442RWzN4aavGJYxdrCOUm67c8YdRPAtXTfOjz_kzXCsd8e8A3m9fiHP9N5Q1aF4VtxvExmtdA/RevolutionaryRedistribution.pdf</a></p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s a lot to be done with it, but it&#8217;s a start.</p>
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